Inside story how Manchester United was rebuilt after World War II: Q&A with Roy Cavanagh MBE

Manchester United author Roy Cavanagh MBE speaks to United In Focus about his latest book Demob to Belgrade.

A new book on Sir Matt Busby and Manchester United from 1945 to 1958 is out soon. It promises to take readers on a journey through rare interviews and stories from league triumphs and FA Cup glory.

Roy Cavanagh MBE details how Busby was a visionary, not just in the rise of United, but in his battle to compete in the European Cup. It is essential reading for anyone who wants to understand the soul of a great football club.

United are a very different club nowadays. Globally recognised and, in many ways, a fallen giant. Perhaps Michael Carrick could learn a few things from Busby’s story.

Q&A with Roy Cavanagh MBE, Manchester United historian and author of Demob to Belgrade

Cavanagh has been writing books on United for many years, but I wanted to catch up with him ahead of his latest release, Demob to Belgrade, the story of United’s rise under Busby.

Speaking exclusively to United In Focus, Cavanagh explains what it was like to interview Busby and his players, and how United had gone through a very difficult period before he was appointed manager in 1945.

In your latest book, Demob to Belgrade, you delve into the extraordinary story of Sir Matt Busby and the rise of Manchester United. From the globally recognised footballing institution it is today, what sort of club was it in 1945 after being heavily impacted by the war?

Roy: “Prior to 1945, Manchester United had gone through the worst time in the club’s history between 1919 and 1939. No triumphs, relegations only, one semi-final in the FA Cup, and that was a loss to City!

“Then there was the loss of Old Trafford to terrible damage in the Second World War, meaning playing all the games at Maine Road for four seasons. How more difficult could Matt Busby’s start be?

“His biggest strength was that he was a people’s man. He could handle them, know their issues, and learn them to accept his philosophy.

“Where he was lucky, as Jack Rowley forcibly pointed out to me in our interview, was that he had an experienced set of players who had formed a very decent link during the war years, so they were not really part of those terrible times prior to the war. I did point out to Jack though that Matt had to handle all those personalities as well and he succeeded.”

This book, rich with firsthand accounts, includes rare interviews with Busby himself and the players who made history, such as Johnny Carey, Jack Rowley, and Jackie Blanchflower. What challenges did you face arranging and conducting these interviews back then, when nowadays it can be extremely difficult to get such access?

Roy: “Luck really! You will find this incredible, but I sent a letter to Sir Matt Busby in 1983 asking him for an interview for a book. He replied immediately and offered times to meet him in his Old Trafford office. He arranged coffee, and only the crash was off the agenda, but he answered all questions about that team and his memories. For instance, re the 1957 FA Cup final. He was never more convinced that United would not win a match. He had been round every player in their bedroom before breakfast to make sure they were all well, and was very relaxed as he led the team out. Six minutes in, a dreadful foul by Peter McParland shattered everything, including Ray Wood’s cheekbone. Ten men for 80 minutes, with, ironically, McParland scoring both Villa’s goals. It robbed United of the first double of the 20th century.

“Something similar with Johnny Carey interview. A friend set up the meeting; I went to his house in Bramhall, and he was a perfect host, without doubt one of, if not the, most impressive sportsmen I have met. We enjoyed a couple of Irish whiskeys when he suddenly said, ‘Let’s find out how the boys are doing in the League Cup semi-final away to Arsenal’. He put the radio on (No Sky or terrestrial TV coverage then), and we were both delighted as United cruised to an impressive victory. A true gentleman, John.

“Re Jackie Blanchflower, I used to host sports dinners all around Britain and regularly sat alongside Jackie, who was a very fine speaker and comedian. We got on so well together, I was devastated when I learned of his death in the local Dubai newspaper when on holiday a couple of days after his death.”

What made Busby so special and different from the rest?

Roy: “As I mentioned earlier, his own tremendous strength and his complete handling as a man-manager, a people’s man. Pat Cerand told me how often, if a player’s wife or family were ill, Matt arranged flowers and other gifts to be sent personally to them. His complete knowledge of what was going on left the players, when they were in a bad position in a match, wanting to return his kindness, and his love even for them.”

Summarise the importance of Jimmy Murphy.

Roy: “Glad you mention Jimmy Murphy. He must NEVER be forgotten for what he did for Manchester United. Matt of course had quickly identified him as his right-hand man, and Jimmy was really responsible for bringing those young Busby Babes through, as both Edwards and Charlton constantly inform.

“From 4pm on Thursday 6th February, Jimmy lived Manchester United 24/7 until the end of the season. A proper football man, a proper man. United are forever indebted to him as they seriously could have gone under.”

Busby’s first major success came in the 1948 FA Cup final win over Blackpool. How influential was United’s first major trophy in 37 years for future success?

Roy: “Vital. Any trophy, particularly as high-profile the FA Cup was then, was/is vital. It gives you control, gives others confidence. This season United had two trophies they could seriously win. The League Cup and the FA Cup. To throw one away so badly last week, re team selection and then losing a two-goal lead at home was a disaster.”

United played their home matches at Maine Road after Old Trafford had been severely damaged by Blitz bombing raids in March 1941. It didn’t reopen until August 1949. What was it like watching United play their home matches at Man City’s old ground?

Roy: “That is a question I cannot answer, as I was not born till 1947 and first saw United in 1954. What I can say is that how Matt pulled the side together to fight such adversity and get the people to really rally around producing some amazing crowds was another feather in his managerial cap.”

United won their first league championship in 41 years in 1952. They went on to win back-to-back titles in 1956 and 1957, but Busby always wanted more. Tell us about the battle Busby faced when United entered the newly formed European Cup?

Roy: “That is a story fully told in the book, a story the WHOLE of English football owe a debt to Manchester United, particularly Matt and that fine chairman Harold Hardman. The Football League, particularly Secretary Alan Hardaker, were so, so out of touch you could not believe. For instance, Hardaker told Matt we did not need to learn anything from foreign football countries. Now, this was only a couple of seasons since Hungary had come to Wembley and defeated England 6-3, and what gets forgotten is that six months later they beat them 7-1 in Budapest. Matt had seen the 6-3 game and was convinced that he wanted his young side tested in everything. His master stroke was getting Sir Stanley Rous of the Football Association involved. They were friends; Rous had asked Matt to manage the 1948 Great Britain Olympic side at the London Games, and he informed Hardaker that they only had jurisdiction over clubs when a match was played. Therefore, what clubs did Monday to Friday if they did not have a game was up to them. HOWEVER, clubs had to fulfil their fixtures; hence the real panic for United being stuck in terrible condition on 6th February late in the afternoon, perhaps staying overnight, what if the airport was still closed and they could not get back to play Wolves on the Saturday? No other planes landed or took off after 3.04, but ironically the airport was fully open on the Friday. Hindsight, hey!”

From the period covered in the book, tell us something you miss that has been lost in the modern game.

Roy: “The game then was played for the fans, by players who loved their clubs, their teammates and did not have the massive, overhyped 24/7 news of today, where things have to be made up to satisfy social media. Also, the player power now is crippling the game. You can sack a manager but hardly 15 players. Just how United could play so magnificently and successfully in the last 17 games, with the best record of all teams and churn out like now is incredible. Casemiro must have had a huge effect off the pitch, whilst the return of Rashford on £16 million a year in wages seems to be an issue.”

Finally, what would you like to see Michael Carrick take from Busby’s story that would help with the job he has at Old Trafford?

Roy: “Strength in what he wants to do. It seems he either has his hands tied or not the desire to be bold and drop players. That we did not strengthen the defence is mystifying. Whose choice was that? The pressure is suddenly rife. The next four games, two league and two Europe, could be vital either way.”